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Fretting the FB Extension?
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Author:  Kbore [ Sun Feb 09, 2025 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Fretting the FB Extension?
I would like to know your order of operations for the fretting the fingerboard extension please, and how do you deal with the curling of the extension?

When I fret the extension off the body, it curls downward, and cannot be straightened with clamping when installed over the sound board. One the last two, (and I’m only on my fourth) I fretted the extension, with a Fret Buck, after I installed the neck, but that introduces more opportunities to mar a fresh finish. I would rather not fret and bevel over the fresh finish.

I read where one of you ( sorry, I can’t remember who) “skip-fret” by staggering the order of fret installation to prevent the compression curl. Arre there other ways to deal with the curling of the extension?

On a related subject, I just had to buy a new fret saw (replacing a SM saw I bought on Ebay) as the kerf had become so narrow, the frets could not be installed. I suspect the previous owner ran the teeth through the jig’s slots, removing the set from the teeth. It was apparent when measuring new/ old kerf, and new/ old saw. It was my first time using the Ebay setup. I had to recut the slots with the new saw so the frets would seat…..
Author:  bobgramann [ Sun Feb 09, 2025 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
I fret before I attach the neck. Your too narrow slots probably account for your extension curling down. With appropriate slot size, you should be okay.

If you sharpen your old saw with a file, the burr that it leaves might be wide enough to reestablish the kerf. Otherwise, you might have to put the set back in it by bending the tips. I did that on my table saw fret blade by making a .002” hole in a board and tapping every other tooth into it with a punch, flipping the blade and doing the others.

For the frets I buy, .023” is the optimum kerf measured with a feeler gauge in the slot.

I played with the skip fret method after it was discussed here. I couldn’t tell much difference.
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
Fretting the board extension after the neck and board is installed the curl is eliminated two ways. First frets are always checked for fit in the slot and if there is too much compression you widen the slots until they go in with some effort but not all that much effort. That's scientific isn't it.

Next the extension once glued becomes part of the system of the top, neck block, paddle if there is one, back and UTB (upper transverse brace).

It takes 15 minutes if that to build a shield for the upper bout that will prevent any damage from slipping while fretting a neck on a guitar which is a must for repair work, eliminates the body joint hump, eliminates the curl that you speak of and preserves full fret material height by permitting you to shape the neck at the board level not just the fret crown level. You also have the opportunity to induce fall away without milling away your nice, new frets to do it.

I have two shields I made out of plastic "for sale" signs and sheet cork that have been on over 20,000 guitars on my bench in nearly 20 years. Again took me 15 minutes to make and they have protected countless guitars. They are great for routine maintenance too I can clean frets and protect the body at the same time.

So Karl fretting with the board off the neck creates other issues and does not address issues that there will be an expectation were addressed such as the body joint hump.

Working on a finished guitar is how we have to work on them. It is what it is.

EDIT: Just noticed it read "fretting with the board on the neck" and should read "fretting with the board off the neck."
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
I use a zip lock bag of birdshot tightly wrapped in duct tape when fretting the extension. Hold the bag with the left hand and hammer with the right. The Fretbuck is overkill…
Author:  J De Rocher [ Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
Like Bob, I'm wondering if your too-narrow fret saw is to blame.

I do something similar to Ed. I hold a sheet metal forming dolly against the underside of the top underneath the extension and hammer with my right hand. The dolly fits nicely in the palm of the hand, fits through the sound hole easily, and weighs 1.5 lb so it absorbs the excess energy well. I agree about the fretbuck. It's massive overkill. I protect the whole top with a mask made from posterboard that has two strips of pickguard material on it located on both sides of the fretboard extension.

Attachment:
Sheet metal dolly for fretting.jpg
Author:  bobgramann [ Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
I use a bolt-on neck. Before fretting, I attach the neck with the tongue held down by double-sided tape. I level the fretboard as attached to the body, then remove the neck before fretting.

I have shields as Hesh describes that I use while dressing the frets and for the cases where I have to fret when the board is already on the guitar, but I prefer to keep away from my new finish with metal tools when I can. I have a dolly just like Jay’s that I use when I have to fret on the guitar.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
I use a double tenon neck so I bolt it on after shaping, level, put in appropriate fall away, and do exactly as Ed. Hold a reinforced bag of lead shot under the extension with one hand and hammer with the other. It’s worked well.
Author:  bftobin [ Sun Feb 09, 2025 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
I have a few different saws (with different kerfs) to cut the fret slots. I fret off the neck to start with and make sure the frets are seated and the board is flat. After the fingerboard is glued on the neck, I level and finish the frets. So, I can use a slightly wider kerf on the last few frets.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Feb 10, 2025 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
A fret buck is great we have and use one. Once in place no balancing act and one hand is now free if you clamp the instrument in an appropriate and safe... vice. You may think it's overkill I completely disagree. Do you even have one??? I would also think that holding something up against the UTB in the sound hole, positioning and tonking a fret in top side with the other hand is a far riskier position when it comes to slipping or something going wrong than a properly installed fret buck, a neck clamped in a leg vice.

We also used lead blocks held in our hand for a fret or two but if I had to fret an entire extension I would lock the buck in place and it's much easier.

We press frets in all locations with some experience and techniques we worked out. My fret hammer is one of the loneliest tools in my two shops.
Author:  Kbore [ Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
Thanks for all the excellent information and methods of work, it was all helpful. Wishing I had more "foundational" and incremental work under my belt before building guitars with expensive materials. I'm learning lots of things that can screw up the process (including me).

Note to Self:
Being that it was the first time I cut slots with that set-up, I should have "verified the process", in its entirety, before making and installing a regulation fingerboard, especially having bought it used on Ebay. I'm going to modify the length of the brass guides of the SM fret slot miter so there is less opportunity to ruin the saw's kerf. I'm also going to stop buying stuff from people I don't know.

Thanks again.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
I’ve mentioned this before, but when I get to the fretboard extension I use a DIY fret barber like the one sold by StewMac to take a little off the fret barbs. This makes for easier hammering. I have a fret press setup that will work on the extension but it is too fussy and slow. I just hold a block of steel under the extension and tap them suckers in.
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Feb 11, 2025 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
I like my fret buck like some others here.
Helps with the pucker factor when re-fretting an assembled guitar, especially if it's someone else's expensive high end model / much loved possession.
Author:  John Arnold [ Tue Feb 11, 2025 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
On the extension, I file the barbs off one side of the fret tang.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Fri Feb 14, 2025 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
Hesh, how do you press the 13th?

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Feb 14, 2025 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
Pmaj7 wrote:
Hesh, how do you press the 13th?

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk


There's a cool little jig for that. Lets you clamp under the heel. I think Dave Collins came up with it. If Hesh doesn't have a photo I've got one in the shop that I made after I went to the class in Ann Arbor.
Author:  bcombs510 [ Fri Feb 14, 2025 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Fretting the FB Extension?
Pmaj7 wrote:
Hesh, how do you press the 13th?

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk

Image

SM shows the approach in the product instructions now too - https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas ... tructions/

I can fret up to 17 this way and the rest through the sound hole.

Brad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  guitarjtb [ Fri Feb 14, 2025 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
Pmaj7 wrote:
Hesh, how do you press the 13th?

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk

I'm not Hesh, but I once played him in a movie.:>)
I do it the same as I am pressing the 15th fret in this photo. The backer board runs under the heel of the guitar and protects the guitar body from the clamp. Not original to me, but it works great. I probably got this from a previous post by Hesh. I use it for the 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th. Then I have to get creative. I use the vice grip clamps on 1 thru 12. After I posted, I see that Brad beat me to the old posting.
Attachment:
IMG_3662.jpg
Author:  bcombs510 [ Fri Feb 14, 2025 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Fretting the FB Extension?
And if you need it, here is a way to make the Jaws work with a smaller throat Bessey so you can reach 18 and 22 to 23 through the sound hole! This is Dave Farmer's trick for using the Bessey. He's got all kinds of creative ideas for fretting the extension. Maybe he will chime in with the catamaran!

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DD47O2_R ... BiNWFlZA==
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
Thanks guys for handling this and great job too.

We press them all and the jigs pictured are one way to do it and very similar to what we use and do. I don't have any pics they were shared here on the OLF many times prior if someone has the time to search for them.

Remember to prepare your fret slots so that the frets go in nicely and stay in, glue is supposed to be insurance. With pressing I get feedback as to how much compression I am creating which can be very important especially for Martins pre-truss-rod days which was not that long ago, 70's.

One last comment. Now that we can press a fret anywhere on the instrument we can also use our press and cauls to clamp frets for gluing with thin CA and hitting it with accelerator. We wax the board, press the fret, leave the clamp in place, run a bead of quality thin CA on one side of the fret that you can often see wick up on the other side and then hit it with accelerator. A few seconds later the press is released and you move on to the next one.

You can't do that with a hammer, glue and clamp your frets that is.

Thanks again guys for helping everyone here and me.
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Fri Feb 14, 2025 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
From the "why didn't I think of that" department. Wow, thanks guys what a great idea!

Hesh, are you using Howard's F&W for that or something thicker that won't seep into the slots?

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Author:  bcombs510 [ Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
This is from Dave Farmer - https://youtu.be/ElDwRvbMXvE?si=2XuCVfJRHXcNIbj6

Enjoy!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Feb 15, 2025 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
Pmaj7 wrote:
From the "why didn't I think of that" department. Wow, thanks guys what a great idea!

Hesh, are you using Howard's F&W for that or something thicker that won't seep into the slots?

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk


Yep just a quick application of Howard Feed-n-Wax and the CA cleans up beautifully. Before we waxed we used single edge razor blades (as a scraper) which works too and before that we use the four chisel set of micro chisels from StewMac and that words OK but not as good as waxing the board.
Author:  Kbore [ Sat Feb 15, 2025 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
What is the width of the brass fret inserts in the JawsII?
I have a Maker-Made fret squeezer and already have a full set of inserts.....
Author:  Woodie G [ Sat Feb 15, 2025 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
At some point, every guitar maker will need to fret with neck on the guitar - if not for corrective action on a rising extension, then for a refret. I learned both press and hammer, and became adept at both by necessity. Nickel silver is much easier for hammer work, although one wants to avoid strikes over the edge of the board. Stainless sometimes just insists on being pressed, and for the heel area, an arrangement as shown in the photo above offered by Mr. guitarjtb (such an uncommon name!) works well. For hammer-setting, a neck support with lead shot bag works through the 12th (on a 14 fret-to-body neck), bag under heel for 13-16, and a hand-held shot bag inside the guitar for the remainder.

One thing I saw at Greenridge was a fixation on making sure the slots were finished to 0.023" using either a hook scraper or Japanese pull saw on bound boards, or a stone-smoothed/set to 0.023" edge on a dovetail saw for through fret slots such as D-18/D-28. My own prep saw is a copy of that Veritas dovetail saw... use with protection over the body until it becomes second nature, working the away side of the extension. In the years I was at Greenridge and since then I have not seen the need for a fret buck given the ability to lightly tap the fret to fix in the slot and a good hold on a 3 pound shot bag under the fret being worked to finish up. The grip used on the hammer bears some attention as well. Most of my hammer work is with a Stanley 5 ounce deadblow and a double-faced standard luthier's hammer with flat brass face. Avoid any radius on the face of a hammer used to provide extra mojo... it tends to readjust the radius of the wire in unpredictable fashion. I use the same tools on stainless, with the caveat that I am normally setting the wire into CA, so some dispatch in getting the wire set is warranted.

Re: hammer work: it is the most efficient way to install frets, but requires the most skill due to the nature of a human with hammer in hand. Be cautious when working over the body, but don't be so afraid that it affects your control of the hammer. Use 0.020-0.032 aluminum guards from the hardware section of a big box store (easily cut and bent with woodshop tools) with some 1/16" PSA-backed cork initially to guard the body as you gain confidence in your hammer work. In time, you'll likely use just a few layers of low tack tape to avoid any superficial lacquer abrasions - usually due to hasty, unprotected fret end beveling - and leave that on the body through final fret buff-out.

One final recommendation - trim the fret crown or crown and tang at an angle... it saves time beveling the crown, and on through-slot frets, that tang will need to be cleaned up in any case, and the angled cut leaves a more uniform appearance to the end of the fret after that filing.
Author:  guitarjtb [ Sun Feb 16, 2025 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fretting the FB Extension?
Woodie G wrote:
Stainless sometimes just insists on being pressed, and for the heel area, an arrangement as shown in the photo above offered by Mr. guitarjtb (such an uncommon name!) works well.

Thanks, Woodie.
Mr. guitarjtb. That has a nice ring to it. I suddenly feel much better. :D
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